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Points of View — 8 Comments

  1. Y.L., I think the poster (whose comment precedes yours above) IS Al, the author of the articles to which you refer. Since you find his ‘tone’ so enraging, can you share a bit more about why it bugs you so? To me it sounds like the tone used when teaching and encouraging a learner. Peace.

    • Hmm, TC.  I fear that I  see comments on my computer in a different order than you may.   I don’t know who Young Lad was referring to.  Could have been me.  I still get it that he feels outraged and am curious about/interested in that. 

  2. Again, really good and acute thinking on your part. Congratulations.
    I find that part of being dialogical is all about making it easy for our listeners. I try to avoid sending any message in a phrase that suggests I am confusing my beliefs with some sort of absolute truth. In doing so I use the word “I” at the beginning of most sentences – I believe, I find, I think, I imagine, I make up, I recall, etc. I do this consciously, and probably now kind of unconsciously, to make dialogue – Friend-Friend more possible.
    One amusing side-note is that my father was shamed into believing that no one should ever use the “I” word. Twas too selfish, he was taught. That I was brought up in a very unclear world.
    I like your reflecting on Boundaries. I remember that my own principles are that all Boundaries Skills are defensive. I think that telling someone they are “wrong” just come across as an assault on their castle. They have to defend. Heck, I found the phrase, “I am right” often comes across as a subtle attack on their boundaries. This is where my sensitivity to MasterTalk came from. How about this as a principle: MasterTalk is an assault on the boundaries of listeners?
    If all this is close, then we might have more clarity about your/my reactions. Your last question might be reframed. “Could it be that my instinctual part, my Lizard, kicks in when it detects incoming MasterTalk?”
    I think we get lots of practice listening to politics at this time of our US election cycle. Enormous amount of MasterTalk and propagated misunderstanding – to make money or to get elected or both! I recall that people who have been lied to often, have a hard time listening to the media during the run up to elections. “Too much intentional falsehood going on.”
    Good thinking and keep up the good work.

    • I think the poster above me has an obnoxious tone and could benefit from reading Al’s articles on “Master talk!” How dare you congratulate someone for something they don’t themselves find to be an extraordinary accomplishment? How dare you order someone to “keep up” something you have interpreted to be “good work?” I am outraged!

      • You come across as kinda pissed.  Not sure what that is all about.  Share more.

        I can pick up one word, “outrage.”  Sandra and I took that word, and its copartner “insulted”, into our personal boundary laboratory.  Spent about 4 months trying to get clear on what the word means and who’s using it.  Came out pretty clear that it tends to be used in passive agressive conversations and the word is applied to the wrong person.  Tis a case of misdirection, I think.  

        First learning is that “outrage” is about the “outraged person” and not about the other person they are referring to.  Take a look at my papers on Frustration and the word Trigger.  Same thing.  Apparently the person who wrote before you, said some things.  Those things “triggered” you and your issues and, the way you express yourself, I imagine you to be focusing on the other person rather than on yourself.  

        What do mean when you say the word “outraged?”

        Do you say it often about other things that people do?

        When you were a kid, around dad and mom, did one of them use the word “outrage?”    

        If I say I am “outraged” my partner is likely to remind me, “Does anyone care if you are outraged?”  Or she might say, “When you are done with that, let’s talk.”  I think she cares if I feel outraged but completely rejects any responsibility for my expressed feeling.  

        I tend to protect people’s rights to say anything they want in any way they can.  I manage myself so that I remain curious about who they are.  

        Good luck.  


  3. Good thinking, thanks Maria. And think of what you are saying. “views expressed can be utterly confusing, terrifying in that they divert from facts as I know it.” Why are their views or their words so scary? Tis easy to guess, but you'd have to answer for yourself.
    Two challenges come to mind. The first is the tendency for us to grow up with parents who “tell us what the truth is” and who “correct us when we see things differently.” The result of this is for most of us to carry a deep seated doubt of our own “sanity.” We seek other people to confirm our views. And when they don't, when they see things differently, it stirs up that old and repeated fear that we are “crazy.” (And of course the Lizard kicks in. Gotta remember to keep that sucker calm!)
    Another is that we momentarily forget the wisdom in the phrase, “You can either be Right or in Relationship. Take your pick.” I think it valuable to put that sign up all over so as not to forget easily.
    How that shows in my life is that if someone uses the words/phrases relating to “Truth”, “Right”, “Wrong”, “Fact”, “Really”, etc. I just quickly shift to a communication wariness. I probably start actively mirroring to slow things down so that I can become curious what this person is trying to say. I probably start reframing their sentences as about sharing their view of things, even though their words suggest they believe in their view. I may even assert quickly, “Of course this is just your view that you are speaking of. Right?” (All to keep my Lizard calm and stay in Dialogue.)
    Love that clarity.

  4. What you write about #6 makes me… puts me in brood mood ;-)! What you think about me is part of you, your view… but… when the person who has that view doesn't have the view of the view being a view, but takes it for the Truth about me, then I regard that as a boundary violation! I can feel very comfortable with people having, to my view, erronious views about me, if I know they relate to their view as a view and not as a Truth. The same view uttered by a person I perceive to relate to their view as Truth (unless they're defeated and proven Wrong) will throw me in a high anxiety state, and I will regard it as a boundary violation, and tend to respond to it as such (which may not be appropriate if wanting to remain in the relation, but it certainly satisfies my need for safety).
    So my question is if it is so that your view of me is a part of you and thus my objekting towards it a kind of boundary violation from my side? My mind goes towards the idea of “emotional symbiosis” here… and how difficult it is when a view isn't perceived as a view but as Truth (or Wrong), as I will spontaneously then regard the other person's view of me as an encroachment… While with a Friend-Friend relating I won't. I will feel the difference in my “back-bone”… Could it be that I instinctively react to the emotional symbiosis as an encroachment, and not the view of me per se?

  5. Beautiful! As so often with your writings I find it satisfying my need for clarity. Particularly when you come down to the most difficult part, the last part. Because in this situation the views expressed can be utterly confusing, terrifying in that they divert from facts as I know it, and particularly when children are involved, it becomes terrifying. It is easy to helplessly stand there and ask “What did I do to deserve this?”, “What did I do to cause it?”, when the roots of it may be far beyond ones boundaries… not being anything one is responsible for other than one did walk into this relating/relation… To know how to stay safe and yet open for dialogue in such a situation – that's art!
    I'd love to see you explore that last D-part even more!

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