When to Fold ’Em?
Lots of people have asked me this over the past year. “If my partner is moving away, is leaving me, when should I give up? How do I make that decision?” I did write one article on how to get ‘em to make a decision about joining you in a relationship. This article is based on the same principle involving a person who maybe acting passively at a time when you want some decision. And remember this is all based on your continued wish to reconnect.
The decision you want is a) that your partner decides to come back toward you or b) that you reasonably get to stop waiting for them.
Here is the setup. They have moved out, either physically or emotionally or both. Their actions have led you to understand that the previous relationship you had with them somehow “sucked” – enough for them to leave. So now you don’t want the old relationship back, but do want to make a new and better relationship with them. You have read my article on What to do when he/she leaves and are trying to follow the four steps.
So the question is, “How long do you wait?” The current wisdom out on the internet seems to be to not contact them at all. I do not think that a wise course. No contact may make them become aware of their “loneliness,” but also may communicate that you don’t care – that you want them to go away.
So here is my suggestion. Modify this as you chose. In its pure form it takes 5 months.
- Establish a contact channel: email, or cards are ideal. It should be cheap and easily permit the sending of a very limited amount of information. I find text messaging is not very suited to this, nor is voice mail, but you choose. You want them to receive your contact and have perfect freedom about what they do with it: read it, trash it, etc.
- Plan a message that you are going to send. You may have to send as many as 10, so make this simple. The message should contain a “greeting,” an optional bit of news, a clue to your work on yourself, a gentle invitation for more contact.
- The greeting can be nothing more complex than “Hi,” or “Dear Mike,” etc. Keep this light.
- Optional newsy bit is just something like “It’s raining hard,” “The lilacs are out,” “Broke my leg the other day. Doing ok, tho.” Don’t mention anything awful that they might feel obliged to fix. Don’t ever say, “I’m miserable without you,” or the like.
- The clue to your work on yourself is part of my instruction to “3: Work on yourself visibly.” This should be different in each note, and I think these should be pretty abstract. You want your partner to be curious for more. Some examples are, “Seeing my counselor weekly and I am sure learning a lot,” “Wow am I learning about how pushy I used to be.” “Boy, I am getting it that I have been asleep for years.” Etc. Anything you are learning that might involve some subject of their past “complaints” might be good. An example could be that if they complained about your temper, you say, “I am working really hard on getting rid of my anger. I realized it’s been a problem to me for years.”
- Lastly you include a gentle invitation (not a push) to more contact. “Love to hear from you any time you feel like it,” “It’d be fun to hear your voice.” “If you ever feel like contacting me, feel free.” (I strongly suggest you don’t ask questions. None, if you can. Just gentle invitations.)
- Then sign it, bluntly or not at all. “Dave,” “Yours,” etc. Do not say, “Your most obedient and humble servant, begging for your orders, please, please.”
- Send one message only, once a week for one month. (4 messages) Send one message, once every other week for two months. (4 messages) Send one message, once a month for two months. (2 messages) STOP.
That’s it.
If at any time he/she re-contacts you, follow my rule #4 and respond minimally. Oh, if their contact is neutral or simply newsy, read it and ignore it. The contact you are looking for is some request to connect to you coming from them. Example: if they say, “Life is crazy here,” you might feel an impulse to write back something like, “What’s going on?” Don’t do it! It’s a trap. If they say, “Tell me more about what you are learning,” that’s a move to reconnect. Respond minimally to that. Wait for them to be explicit.
Do not be surprised too much if he/she contacts you after the five months of this process. Your partner is leaving that period with a memory of your wanting them, but not pushing. That, I think, is the best you can do.
Good luck.
Al that’s very good. You ever thought about taking up being a therapist……ha ha. The poster in my bedroom from your selection is the ‘I am a motor mouth’ so I think your advice is very good, I am actively practicing my listening skills and have been surprised at how hard it is. Not so much to listen but to switch off my mouth’s autopilot. Of course my solution had been to withdraw from too much people contact but I have now begun to push back the other way a bit and re-enter the fray. You mention minimal contact in your most popular read, and there is a line where you say perhaps tell them you are off to see your therapist or whatever. Does this still work if your brevity is born of things other than the obvious…..I’m just doing something to help me improve myself…..EG ‘hey lovely to hear your voice, I’m just off out on my bike can I call you later’ There appears a fine line between manipulating the truth, and cautiously inviting them back into your new and improved world if and when they feel ready……I would not manipulate the truth and so wouldn’t want to exaggerate my ‘therapy’ the rewards of the real work I believe will be enough, I look around and see so many people doing that in relationships all of the time….as I am sure I and she did. The things that you have written here even when they challenge the individual to face hard truths are presented with a calm that invites gentle reflection and a positive outlook. My confidence ran high enough on Friday that I e-mailed an essay I had written in 1996 and revised on Friday to a dozen friends/family in respopnse to the sad killing of a serving soldier in London this week. I hve no vested interest in these events, indeed I rarely am aware of the news as I prefer to remain outside that loop but I heard about it and felt I wanted to try and gently suggest to people that violence begets violence…… this felt like some improvement in my demeanour to have the enthusiasm and even confidence to attempt this……Thankyou I think your work has had a role to play in that……..May I send you my proposed e-mail this week once I write it as I would love any input, I intend to focus on brevity of sentence and master talk in addition to the obvious content as I try to learn a little more about myself also?
Hi Al…..I have been reading across your site, perhaps a little randomly but always targeting topics I think will open me up most successfully. Can you offer (or do you elsewhere) any insight on ‘Why Silence?’. Why does my ex choose a complete communication blackout. I have seen her only twice over the past two months once in a leisure centre reception and once in the street and on both occasions we managed a ‘hi’ but no expanded conversation. I was not an obessive texter (and had not e-mailed at all until last week) but I had a written a short note expressing a wish that things had been different but acknowledging my respect for her decision and on top of that perhaps half a dozen texts. Over the three months or so since we began being seperate ‘absolute silence’ has been the preferred response on her part. I have read stuff online about how this is punishing and poor behaviour but I am not looking to villify her, it seems to me perhaps that on the one hand it can be seen as hurtful and dismissive, but on the other hand if I really didn’t care about someone being in my life any longer I would not care equally about responding to a text or other communication. On the other side the silence invites you in an odd way to keep communicating (in which I can see the trap). Also what do you feel about ‘the other person’ in this instant a long time friend, surrogate mother who will very likely have extracted ‘promises’ from my ex not to ‘give in’ this time, with subtle threats of expulsion from her inner circle and a perfect explanation that all my ex’s issues will be solved by running away from me…..Is this kind of stuff common in your work. I may have the last bit wrong and don’t wish to seem accusatory but I saw this pattern in operation when we were together, and indeed prior to that. I used to think I would need to go and ‘have it out’ with this person until I recognised how futile and defeating such an involvement would likely be……
Al good day.
I sent a first e-mail a little amended to that I offerred in my previous commentary to you (though not too much) on Thursday afternoon ultimately the eve of the anniversary of her sons birthday (see previous thread) as I did not want to come off trying to hog her emotional limelight on the actual day (saw and read alot about master talk).
As I have had no reply to anything and very dialled down expectations I was not surprised at receiving no reply, but my mobile phone rang at 2.30 a.m…….an unknown number. She and I did sometime break contact after disagreement in the middle of the night and she is a real night owl, and so I have an inkling it might have been her the phone has not rung in the middle of the night from anyone else in 5 years (I did not answer partly cos I was half asleep and partly because I have hold of the idea of being available minimally and it seemed if it was contact it was like a trick) Do you encounter this kind of surreptitious first contact in your couples therapy…..it seems VERY deer in the woods if it was her?.
Anyway I will continue with another e-mail this Thursday brief, cordial and modestly inviting……BUT??? I was a frequent present buyer/rewarder/ and she a very willing receiver. I had a glossy coffee table style photo book of our shared adventures made up for her birthday but never got to give it to her as we had already split in March, this is a creative thing and unusual from me and would I think indicate my more patient outlook…..\
Is this something I might post to her perhaps mentioning I had made it for her birthday, it now being three months on (I think she would miss being spoiled she had very little of that in her younger life and it triggered a growing response from me, which as I write this seems a little master/servant now despite coming from a good space within me).
I am keen to share an evolution toward vintage love and as I looked at it certainly many positive past times were evoked but I think I read on one of your essays, I of course do not actually know what memories any picture, comment, or moment might evoke in her, and we are a distance from yet being able to sit down and just share our truths……..I believe that day will come. Thank you for any insight you may feel able to offer.
Glad I’ve got stuff written that can help you. Yes, I have seen that phonecall like contact before. I think you are in the position of waiting, but actively waiting, for her to clearly turn around at least a little. I understand the urge to interpret anything she does as a “go ahead” sign. Don’t fall for it! You might want to act a little deaf so that she has to speak clearly. In the meantime learn all you can. If you can, practice. One thought was that you want to share. But sharing means someone has to want to listen. They have to want to do some work. Best to practice the listening part without sharing. It will help your lizard relax. Might find a friend that you want to “tell everything to” and then not “tell” but instead get them to talk to you at length – tell you some stories and let you practice listening when you want to talk.
Just expanding briefly on the above thread. I text-ed a couple of times immediately after our split up and never had any reply as my more frequent texts immediately before the split were ignored this was not a surprise, I think that is both because the silent treatment had become a successful form of punishment for her/me and also that her ‘advisors’ would have frowned upon her ‘giving in’; and also because she was/is angry with me (herself). I like the idea of e-mail as I have not e-mailed at all but do you suggest as a part of the ‘5 month plan’ that once one settles on a mode of communication I.E. cards/e-mail whatever that you stick with that for it’s ‘recognisability’ or vary it and the time between communications so one is not at least predictable.?
Thank you
Sure you can vary the time lapses. But another way to look at it is that it might not hurt to let her know what you are doing (once a week, etc). I think it can often seem disrespectful to be doing something and keep your motives/plans secret. On the other hand, she hasn’t asked what you are doing. Remember you are into a long range change in yourself from the past.
Hi Al. Thanks for your replies. squeezed in an hour reading safety and the Lizard, sir what you write is inspiring in and of itself. The length of sentences is a really valid point, and I recognize is a reflection of my previous inability to listen emphatically (a skill I am determined to learn). Long sentences equals someone talking for themselves rather than to convey a point I think…….I will look again at the text, she is important, I am important so it is important….. I plagiarize the following from your Lizard text and stuck it on my fridge……….All of my reactions are an entirely rational response to a completely crazy world….
Do you believe that when you change yourself, and advocate that to those around you, that almost by silent consent they will either follow your lead and begin to adjust or move away as they cannot tolerate the ‘evolution’?
That has been my experience. As I develop healthy reactions, and especially healthy reactions to the behaviors of others that may be a bit crazy, by setting an example I help others grow into new healthier reactions. Some, for a time, resist, even passionately.
My belief is that healthy behaviors will win out eventually cuz they will evoke the “healthy” in others, too. But it sure can take time.
Well if nothing else you are helping me to validate my way of thinking which curiously I believe I have known for a long long time, or at least learned long ago; but been asleep to in recent years whilst my bulldog ego kept charging around looking for someone to fight, or more accurately a way to feel sorry for it/myself. I suppose extrapolating from the Lizard principal people who are resisting however passionately are making sense and just ‘feeling’ what their lizard perceives and reacting accordingly, that perception will only change when their level of ease increases? You really do need to stay awake….Al I am learning so very much, some again and some for the first time. I thank you, fate or chaos it matters not how I got here only that here is where and who I am right now….You are a fine person Thankyou, I suspect I will post again…..
David
Hi Al
I like this less confrontational approach than no contact. Strange contradiction I know but no contact by its nature is like one’s attempt to bully an ex partner into missing and wanting you and doesn’t feel right, the balance has always been though as a man not coming across as needy/clingy unable to be self supporting. Your ‘when to fold em remedy seems to me just about spot on. I have written to you on your what to do when he/she leaves page yesterday (the 50 year old man in a roller coaster) at that point had not found this page so evolving all the time I guess. My ex has an estranged son they have not spoken for three years……his decision not hers, this Friday is his 24th birthday, I had thought of sending a text acknowledging she was in my thoughts but looking at your page here have amended my thinking but wonder at brevity/length/depth……Does this feel ok for a first contact after some weeks of no direct communication…….
Hi Eugenia
It’s been nice to have the sun start coming out a bit, it felt like the longest winter ever, I understand there’s some booked in for the bank holiday weekend!
As part of my self reflection I have been out walking a great deal and it has been a wonder to actually pay attention to the flowers as they bud and grow. It really helps when you are working on yourself to see nature doing its thing. I know today is significant to you for reasons other than that it’s two years since we were on a train back from our incredible Edinburgh marathon weekend. Just wanted you to know you are in my thoughts….
Love to hear from you some time
David
PS I remember Tom speaking about ‘tipping point’ some great interviews you might like here> ….. http://worldwidetippingpoint.com/
Tom is her other son who is in touch and with whom I had a good connection
any thoughts much appreciated
David
Not a bad message. I probably would have made it even shorter. Some of those long sentences could have been cut. Like the part about Tom and tippingpoint. I’ad drop the bit about “I know today…” Sounds kinds of Master/Talkie which might push her away.
I also like your point that No Contact seems bullying. At the very least it seems manipulative and disrespectful. So I don’t recommend it.
Hi Al
I just got to work (UK time) and had an opportunity to review the message I hope to send.
You mention that you might drop the ‘I know today’ do you mean the whole emphasis or just the style of introducing it. I have cut my sentences which is quite cathartic actually but I felt that acknowledging the date (her sons’ birthday) was a key as to why I would start to e-mail Friday after a communication void…….
As an aside I recognize part of my own blindness to truth……here goes…..
We split, I chased she let me back in. This had been the pattern for about 14 months with slightly increased volume in arguments and bitterness each time it was re-cycled.
In January this year I arranged for her and I to go to Portugal for a week (at her behest) in order to find and re connect with her parents who she had not spoken with for 23 years since they emigrated. We found them after a heck of a lot of detective work, and somewhat against the odds, and were well received, and I suggested they were really nice people to my partner which in retrospect conflicts with her telling of her childhood and early adulthood, which saw them as cold and uncaring and so at the core of some of her own issues. I think I thought I was validating but wonder now if I didn’t come off as arrogantly suggesting that her definition of these people was wrong…….I.E. at some level that it must have been her fault….
I really only wanted to do the best but looking back this period was (may still be) filled with re-visited trauma for my partner (the Lizard has no concept of time)….
A week after we came back she somewhat manufactured a reason for us to break up and reverted to her ‘substitute’ mother figure a lady of mature years who has been in her perception a protector for the past 25 years.
And this time she did not seek the pattern of argument (neither did I) just drew away…… I think I pushed her……Gosh does any of this strike a chord?
Sounds very familiar. Something that sticks out is the word “argument.” Don’t do it. It takes two people to do an arguement. And that means you, by yourself, can stop all arguments. She can decide to be argumentative, but you don’t have to argue. I write about this a lot. http://www.alturtle.com/?s=argument&x=8&y=6 I doubt that my wife and I have argued in 18 years. Go ahead and learn about Empathy, Peace Making and Master/Slave. Or not.
Hi Al. ‘Or not’ is not an option that interests me any longer. this is the best going back to school I can imagine, I have found some of this already betwixt writing the above and hard copied my bedtime reading. Vintage love is nirvana I think, whether I can achieve this with her will be down to us both if she opts to receive me, but I will certainly look to evolve myself and first step it seems is that I recognize quite clearly actually that my whole life, corporate, parenting, as a child and adolescent, education, even leisure was all designed around combat. I did the best I could and actually always saw myself as a people pleaser, a real trier, but I am waking up and see I can do better, better for me, and so better for the world around me. I read what went back and forth between you and the gentleman on the what to do page……I think that if you work hard on yourself and stay quietly visible whilst respecting boundaries you are never truly giving up on someone you want to evolve ‘vintage love’ with. I’ll leave you in peace for a time but am truly grateful for your insights…..Thank you
Ps I feel incapable of doing all of those nice calm things as I have a powerful needy screaming child in me (reptile?) which is angry he’s treating me like this, so badly. I want him to feel guilty of his part. I just seem incapable of not reacting. It’s my biggest disability and I’m rock bottoming on it. Every time I think ‘I’ve got it’ I do it again! I so wish I had a calm rational brain but I don’t! I’m in there within a split second, I can’t find a time lapse, as its already out there before I think. I wish I was different and stop being such an idiot. I’ve got love addiction stuff and he is a love avoident. I’ve tried everything: emdr (I’ve PTSD from being abused as a child) cbt, 12 steps, books, church, praying, hypnotherapy, cranial sacri therapy, acupuncture, reiki, you name it I’ve done it please help! I don’t know what else to do. The only thing I am good at is being a good mother and art.
I’m wondering where to start. Oh, well, here goes.
Dear Liz, sounds pretty awful – for both …. all of you. This can’t be easy on the kids either. I tend to think that the good Lord hands challenges to people who can handle them and that He sizes the challenges to their capacities. Tough, stubborn, strong people get bigger challenges. This seems wondefully big. Congratulations.
Next thought is that even living in peace with three toddlers would be an enormous challenge for any mom. I do believe that it takes a whole community to raise one kid let alone three. As I was taught it, “It takes a community to raise a kid. It takes a community to keep parents ‘sane’ while they raise the kid.” So most of us require a staff of about 5 people to manage life and when you are raising a kid, I’d expand that to 10. Sounds as if you have much to small a support system. Your Lizard should be going whacko!
Quick temper. A real problem. Is all about the Lizard. That first reaction, in less than 5 seconds or so, is pure Lizard, I think. One mistake many people make is to try to have other people take care of their Lizard. That’s ok when you are 1 week or 2 years old, but as an adult it is your job to take care of your Lizard. No one else can do it – though they can help.
What you describe with your husband, father of the kids, seems normal end-of-Power-Struggle kind of stuff. It is Choice Point time for the relationship. Wouldn’t it be nice to be doing this before there were kids in the picture. Yeah, but most people don’t get to do that. Have to solve all the problems at once. Aaargh.