When to Fold ’Em?
Lots of people have asked me this over the past year. “If my partner is moving away, is leaving me, when should I give up? How do I make that decision?” I did write one article on how to get ‘em to make a decision about joining you in a relationship. This article is based on the same principle involving a person who maybe acting passively at a time when you want some decision. And remember this is all based on your continued wish to reconnect.
The decision you want is a) that your partner decides to come back toward you or b) that you reasonably get to stop waiting for them.
Here is the setup. They have moved out, either physically or emotionally or both. Their actions have led you to understand that the previous relationship you had with them somehow “sucked” – enough for them to leave. So now you don’t want the old relationship back, but do want to make a new and better relationship with them. You have read my article on What to do when he/she leaves and are trying to follow the four steps.
So the question is, “How long do you wait?” The current wisdom out on the internet seems to be to not contact them at all. I do not think that a wise course. No contact may make them become aware of their “loneliness,” but also may communicate that you don’t care – that you want them to go away.
So here is my suggestion. Modify this as you chose. In its pure form it takes 5 months.
- Establish a contact channel: email, or cards are ideal. It should be cheap and easily permit the sending of a very limited amount of information. I find text messaging is not very suited to this, nor is voice mail, but you choose. You want them to receive your contact and have perfect freedom about what they do with it: read it, trash it, etc.
- Plan a message that you are going to send. You may have to send as many as 10, so make this simple. The message should contain a “greeting,” an optional bit of news, a clue to your work on yourself, a gentle invitation for more contact.
- The greeting can be nothing more complex than “Hi,” or “Dear Mike,” etc. Keep this light.
- Optional newsy bit is just something like “It’s raining hard,” “The lilacs are out,” “Broke my leg the other day. Doing ok, tho.” Don’t mention anything awful that they might feel obliged to fix. Don’t ever say, “I’m miserable without you,” or the like.
- The clue to your work on yourself is part of my instruction to “3: Work on yourself visibly.” This should be different in each note, and I think these should be pretty abstract. You want your partner to be curious for more. Some examples are, “Seeing my counselor weekly and I am sure learning a lot,” “Wow am I learning about how pushy I used to be.” “Boy, I am getting it that I have been asleep for years.” Etc. Anything you are learning that might involve some subject of their past “complaints” might be good. An example could be that if they complained about your temper, you say, “I am working really hard on getting rid of my anger. I realized it’s been a problem to me for years.”
- Lastly you include a gentle invitation (not a push) to more contact. “Love to hear from you any time you feel like it,” “It’d be fun to hear your voice.” “If you ever feel like contacting me, feel free.” (I strongly suggest you don’t ask questions. None, if you can. Just gentle invitations.)
- Then sign it, bluntly or not at all. “Dave,” “Yours,” etc. Do not say, “Your most obedient and humble servant, begging for your orders, please, please.”
- Send one message only, once a week for one month. (4 messages) Send one message, once every other week for two months. (4 messages) Send one message, once a month for two months. (2 messages) STOP.
That’s it.
If at any time he/she re-contacts you, follow my rule #4 and respond minimally. Oh, if their contact is neutral or simply newsy, read it and ignore it. The contact you are looking for is some request to connect to you coming from them. Example: if they say, “Life is crazy here,” you might feel an impulse to write back something like, “What’s going on?” Don’t do it! It’s a trap. If they say, “Tell me more about what you are learning,” that’s a move to reconnect. Respond minimally to that. Wait for them to be explicit.
Do not be surprised too much if he/she contacts you after the five months of this process. Your partner is leaving that period with a memory of your wanting them, but not pushing. That, I think, is the best you can do.
Good luck.
Hi,
I am 3 days along the break up journey after being dumped for someone else and hurting badly. We used to text all day, always telling each other little snippets of information about our day… So hard not to reach for my phone when something happens I want to share with her. We haven’t been in touch for 24hours, since she asked if I’d arrived at my Mum’s and i said yes. The thing is, we have a rental property full of belongings that we need to sort out – how do I contact her to sort practical stuff like that out? Do I wait until we’re done sorting practicalities and then initiate the above steps? Also, I don’t want to be in contact with her if she’s in a relationship with the other woman, but how do I ask about that?
Hello Laura, Ouch, sounds rough! Not much info for me to go on. How long have you two been together? How long has she been in this Relationship with the other gal, do you guess? Three days?
Personally I would drag my feet on the rental property stuff to see if you can get some clarity as to why she left you. Remember “All people make sense all the time.” Just their own sense. How come you didn’t know about her breaking up long before this? What’s up with your (hers and yours) communication skills and honesty? Oh. I got lots of questions, and it sounds as if there’s a lot of stuff to be learned here.
Thanks so much for your reply!
We were together eleven years and I’m 31 so pretty much my whole adult life. She’s not in a relationship with the other woman yet, as far as I know…she went to see her the day after she broke up with me to see if she felt the same way, she does and they’re going to take things slow and see what happens.
I saw her getting too close to this woman two months ago as we all work(ed) together. I talked to her about it last month but she said it wasn’t wrong for her to have a friend. She said it was a bad sign that I didn’t trust her, as I thought there might be more going on. I did think the other woman might have feelings beyond friendship, I never expected my ex to have those feelings too. She says she didn’t realise how she felt until I pointed out her behaviour (eyes lighting up when she walks in, giggling and laughing together at inside jokes, being joined at the hip at work) and on Monday she realised I was right. We had crisis talks a month ago where I approached the subject of separating as I couldn’t sit there and watch them get closer right in front of my eyes, but she pretty much begged me to stay as she never wants to lose me. So I thought we we’re getting through it and as the month passed she kept her distance a bit and there seemed to be light at the end of the tunnel. Until she deliberately spent all Monday working only with the other woman (we usually with in teams of 3-4) and apparently enjoyed it immensely.
She said around half 6 that evening that she was confused and didn’t know what we should do. When she told me she had feelings I initially thought we could work through it, move away or transfer to a different site to cut contact with the other woman and work on us. But she said no, she didn’t think she could continue a relationship if she had feelings for someone else. I said we could work it out, many people have unwanted feelings or crushes, they don’t have to be acted on, then she dropped the bombshell: she wants to act on them. And that was that.
It hurts more because the day before we were making future plans and seriously discussing purchasing a property in the near future. It hurts more because it could’ve hurt less if she’d spoken to me before the emotional betrayal… We had crisis talks only a month ago, it could have ended mutually and amicably instead she told me she never wanted to lose me and we’d get through this glitch together.
I am hurt and angry and bitter and have so many questions but have not contacted her still. I have a document on my phone where i type messages i want to send or would ordinarily send. I have also started a diary and have written 32 pages already. I am desperate to know if she’s processing this alone like me or if she’s been round the other woman’s house, but I know it’s not of my business. I am so angry at how she has instigated this but it has to be me that moves out losing my home, my job as well as my partner and best friend and our lovely life by the sea. She still has everything. We didn’t have children because she was categorically against it, but the other woman has seven. She detests smoking and always said she could never date/kiss a smoker, the other woman smokes. It doesn’t make any sense and it’s not fair (I know, life isn’t!)
I can’t drag my feet too long as I am not working now I’ve had to leave so have no money to pay rent after next month.
This was a lengthy reply – sorry about that!
Hi Laura, Took my time to read your piece. Printed it out and underlined all the thoughts that struck me. My first reaction was that I thought you had a perfect right to feel betrayed, shocked, surprised and angry. (Of course the anger isn’t very useful.) One of the first things Sandra and I did was define the word lying to include all this stuff – this keeping secrets, etc.
And of course lying produces the feeling of “having been betrayed” when it is revealed. All about building and maintaining Trust. Sounds as if you two managed a relationship in which Trust was a long time problem.
To be safe you must share and to discover you are not sharing or your partner is not sharing is a great step toward rebuilding a strong relationship.
My guess is your partner hasn’t been telling you all her truth for quite a while and that might have finally lead her to pull away. Ask her? Address the reason she doesn’t feel safe to talk candidly to you. (Just my guesses. She’s probably said some good clues to what’s going on in her. Look into her “complaints” for material to address.)
Go for it. Good luck.
I couldn’t find a reply button below your reply.
We aren’t meeting yet, she’s too exhausted to drive 6 hours and I can’t argue with that – I’m exhausted too.
She has said previously that she didn’t tell me things because she didn’t want me to get upset or be annoyed. I have had a tendency to get annoyed too much, and know I can be passive aggressive – silent treatment, sarcasm. I wasn’t aware it affected her so much though it I’d have tried harder to conquer it, got counselling or something.
Something occurred to me this morning when I remembered s conversation the 3 of us had 2 months ago. The other woman was saying how her current girlfriend (of 3 months) is always negative, moaning and how it ‘drags her down’. Me and my partner both commented how that wasn’t a nice way to live. I thought at the time, uh oh I do that sometimes…and if I thought it you can guarantee my ex thought it too. It seems to me that all the talking they’ve done about the other woman’s relationship has probably stuck in my ex’s head and she’s realised how much it bothers her. Sometimes it’s only in taking to someone else about something that you really understand it yourself.
Also, when we’ve come close to separating in the past we’ve both decided that although not perfect we’d rather be togehter than alone, we have nice times and a nice life. Now my ex has a friend-possibly-more to lean on she is no longer on her own so perhaps feels she has the strength and support to do this now. I can’t argue with that, in similar circumstances I might’ve made that choice too.
We text today regarding meeting to sort house things and at the end of the conversation I caved and asked her if I should stop getting my hopes up. She said yes, she will not change her mind. Heartbroken all over again but at least I know.
I don’t know if there’s any point me following your stages of contact now…
As to your question, Laura, I would definitely start trying to contact her using my “scheme,” if you want to have her in your life as a partner. She’s said she won’t change her mind, but you already know she doesn’t know herself for sure. So I wouldn’t take that as final. Take lack of contact after the notes and stuff and months as a clear sign.
Sounds as if you are both doing a bunch of growing up and learning. I suggest you focus on the learning you have ahead of you. Worth a lot to figure out what to focus on.
What do you think made you believe that you could do stuff to “bring her down” and that you wouldn’t lose her? Have you seen that noxious behavior somewhere in your life: dad, mom, uncle, etc? Give all that up soon, is my suggestion. Replace them habits with stuff that makes your partner (whomever) feel cared about and a bit inspired. Go for it.
What I meant to say was that ‘drags me down’ was the exact phrase my ex used when describing my behaviour. It obviously struck a chord with her too.
Her statement that she will not change her mind was very final. She wants to explore her feelings and friendship-maybe-more with the other woman.
I am surprising myself by the learning and realisations I’m having. Accepting that neither of us were happy when we both plodded along for so long pretending we were was hard, but necessary. She doesn’t know any of my realisations though and I have no idea what her thoughts are on everything now. She may be taking other people’s advice to get angry as a way of putting distance between us, or she may be leaning heavily on and bonding further with the other woman. Or both.
I think I have learned some negativity from my Mum. My Dad died 16 years ago when I was 16 and she never dealt with that. She is very bitter, somewhat depressed and is quick to anger and moan. I do notice some of her behaviours in me now and I will work hard to change those. I genuinely didn’t realise these behaviours bothered her for longer than the timespan of the particular comment, otherwise I would have made the effort to change much sooner. I think my annoyed reactions and her snappiness lately both stemmed from the long standing underlying unhappiness that we were just not acknowledging. We hadn’t treated each other with caring or loving actions in a long long time.
I also realised that her behaviour with others is always different. Other people love her instantly, she is funny, jokey, messes around and is always laughing. Not with me. I am serious and intense and not one for joking around. I realised I can’t actually remember the last time we laughed, the last time we experienced pure joy together. That’s sad. And with me she looked like she had the weight of the world on her shoulders, with me always talking about how we *must* do this and *need* to do that. With others, the other woman included, she laughs and smiles and has fun. She looks as though she feels lighter…
I was stupid tonight and text to ask if we could try to support each other through this as friends as only we know what we’re going through. Of course she said “No, not in this situation, we just need to move on and get on without each other that’s how it works. We can still be friends but it has to be at a distance for now.” I think I will instigate your plan now. I need to stop humiliating myself by reaching out in desperation, giving her the power to keep deciding how this goes and inevitably crushing me again each time I’m rejected. I want her to know all these about the realisations and learning – last time we spoke, the day after it happened, we argued horribly and I blamed her, told her she should be ashamed (she isn’t) and generally ranted and raved at her. She doesn’t know how much my understanding and outlook has changed.
I just want my best friend back. We were friends way back, before our relationship, I hope we can salvage our friendship out of the rubble of our relationship. I need my best friend in my life, maybe not right now if it’s too raw and early, but at some point.
We are meeting in a mouth to start sorting out our possessions and rental property. Is it wise to meet during this process? Or should I wait until after our meetings (there may be several, lots of stuff to sort through) to start the process?
Well, Laura, I had a couple of thoughts to contribute.
When she is definite, I suggest you listen, translate that “definite statement” into a simple message of how serious this person is now about wanting change. I would then focus on displaying the “attitude of encouraging and participating in change/learning”. I believe that while you can “think” about “going back” or “wanting to have your best friend back”, you can’t get that. I suggest you accept that. But you can move forward. And much of what she’s said and is talking about can be seen as guidelines to what directions of change will be the most fruitful. I think your best direction is forward.
Hi Al,
I just wanted to give you an update on what’s happening.
I have spent the last 3 weeks reading and researching, understanding the path our relationship took and the joint responsibility we both had in how things turned out. I was starting to come to terms with things. And we had been civil by text regarding practicalities.
Yesterday we met at our house to start sorting things out. I went calmly, expecting to be able to talk while we worked, in a mature way. She came with such anger and bitterness, hit me with both barrels. Apparently she has been miserable for years, felt trapped and controlled by me, always knew she’d not be spending the rest of her life with me and actually wishes we’d never met. That was hard to hear.
Now I feel back to square one, feeling sick and shaking. Was the whole 11 years a lie? Is everything I thought I knew about me and her and us not true? I’m trying not to take it all personally, it might just be her projecting and desperately trying to appease her conscience. If she hates me then it’s easier for her to let go. But she was so spiteful and nasty. I didn’t even know she had that side to her 🙁
Anyway, we’ve blocked and deleted each other on all social media now and I doubt very much I’ll ever head from her again. Which is probably for the best if she’s going to be so vile. Still, I’m left with all this emotional trauma to deal with and I don’t even know where to start.
Hi Laura, yeah I hate those morning meetings where a partner shares all their pent up frustration, anger, etc. etc. Hurts to listen. But tis on the way to become more mature, grown up. Glad she did it, finally. Now you can move forward from a relationship that needed “tearing apart and starting again.” Hope you two keep on working your way through this (very normal) step. That goal, what I call Vintage Love, requires lots of work and eventually candid openness almost all the time.
Good luck.
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Hi Al, my partner of 7 years left 2 nights ago. Was there any reason why you don’t think text messaging works for this? I want to follow the plan but use text. Also there is an element of practical things I need to talk to him about (He’s been on a phone plan that I’ve been paying for and will be ending that mobile plan next month; what to do with his big fish tank as I can’t maintain it….I may move house and need him to get his other stuff.) Also can I still call him babe as that’s how I’ve called him the past 7 years. Calling him anything else or nothing seems too cold. I love him and would love for him to come back after “sorting” his stuff out. 🙁
Sorry to take so long to get back to you, Vanessa. I been at family reunion in Boston.
Text messaging. I generally think that the “bandwidth” of text is so narrow that trying to build or rebuild a relationship using it is almost guaranteed to fail. Too much misunderstanding potential. Kind of like a long distance relationship – very difficult. And doing the short messages, I’ve written about, takes some thought and I don’t think should be dashed off quickly. I like using text messaging for making appointments to talk or share more deeply. Of course you can do anything you choose.
Sure, call him Babe. (Unless one of the things he is sorting out is how much he dislikes you calling him “Babe.” I suggest that at this time you focus more on what you need to “sort out”. If he left you after 7 years, this has probably been coming for years (more than 3 probably). I think it a good idea to wrap your mind about why he’d do that, why you didn’t know this was coming and thus why you were not prepared for it. Bunch of understandings there. Usual pattern is after this time he has been trying to get your attention to get you to change some things and he’s gotten into “hopeless” thinking. “She’ll never change.” I don’t think you want him to sort that out. I think you want him to come to believe that you will change and he can count on you. But that’s just my guess.
Good luck.
Al,
Thanks for the quick response. I will re read the articles you have suggested. The damage romantically I believe means she does not know how to get over what I have done. My biggest problem is she is not responding to anything I am doing. I sent her flowers, text her, have left her alone like she asked, and I get nothing. I don’t want to give up because I want to be with her, just don’t know what to do give up or keep going?
Let’s see, Rich, my guess is she’s not responding cuz the feels “pushed”. Make sure she no longer feels pushed before you expect any response. You just have to wait a lot.
So, damage romantically. I’m have little idea of what all you’ve done to her – except cheat on her. It might be worth remembering that how hurt she is has only a little to do with what you’ve done. More has to do with how she’s taken it all. And if you don’t know how she’s taken your actions then you can add to your troubles, your communication problems.
After she decides to share with you, I think you’ll want to listen to her a lot. 20 words from her and 5 from you.
Just a guess.
Oh and remember her brain, hell all brains are not designed to forget.
Al,
I have read all of your articles. When does one know when to finally give up? Any help you give is greatly appreciated?
Your post, Rich, got me to wondering. I thought I’d answered this question very specifically in this article on “When to Fold ‘Em”. So I read the article again. It still seems pretty specific.
Could you share more about what you’d like. It’s got a 5 month process to make the shut down – all after no response from the start.
Al,
At this point I am really desperate and losing hope. I have been reading your articles. I was with my ex for 6 years. We broke up. We lived together and towards the end of the relationship I cheated and she moved out in Feb. She and I remained in contact via texting talking and seeing each other. She told me on May 11 she needed space. Didn’t have any contact with her for over 30 days. I sent her a text and she said she doesn’t want to be with me and that there has been too much damage romantically. I have sent her texts, flowers and gotten no response. Any advice would help because I love her, want to be with her. I just don’t understand after 6 years how she could just cut me out.
Help.
Wow, Rich, sounds like a mess. Also sounds like lots of experience to learn from, and you’re still going through it. Look at the power she now has now that she can leave! Ouch!
Of course you’re getting hopeless. That happens to almost everyone as they are exiting the Power Struggle. Gotta learn new skills now, and as fast as you can.
Glad you’ve found my site. Hope it helps. “What to do when she leaves?” “Becoming a source of safety to her Lizard.” Etc. Lots of specific advice here.
Don’t know what “damage romantically” means.
Good luck.