When to Fold ’Em?
Lots of people have asked me this over the past year. “If my partner is moving away, is leaving me, when should I give up? How do I make that decision?” I did write one article on how to get ‘em to make a decision about joining you in a relationship. This article is based on the same principle involving a person who maybe acting passively at a time when you want some decision. And remember this is all based on your continued wish to reconnect.
The decision you want is a) that your partner decides to come back toward you or b) that you reasonably get to stop waiting for them.
Here is the setup. They have moved out, either physically or emotionally or both. Their actions have led you to understand that the previous relationship you had with them somehow “sucked” – enough for them to leave. So now you don’t want the old relationship back, but do want to make a new and better relationship with them. You have read my article on What to do when he/she leaves and are trying to follow the four steps.
So the question is, “How long do you wait?” The current wisdom out on the internet seems to be to not contact them at all. I do not think that a wise course. No contact may make them become aware of their “loneliness,” but also may communicate that you don’t care – that you want them to go away.
So here is my suggestion. Modify this as you chose. In its pure form it takes 5 months.
- Establish a contact channel: email, or cards are ideal. It should be cheap and easily permit the sending of a very limited amount of information. I find text messaging is not very suited to this, nor is voice mail, but you choose. You want them to receive your contact and have perfect freedom about what they do with it: read it, trash it, etc.
- Plan a message that you are going to send. You may have to send as many as 10, so make this simple. The message should contain a “greeting,” an optional bit of news, a clue to your work on yourself, a gentle invitation for more contact.
- The greeting can be nothing more complex than “Hi,” or “Dear Mike,” etc. Keep this light.
- Optional newsy bit is just something like “It’s raining hard,” “The lilacs are out,” “Broke my leg the other day. Doing ok, tho.” Don’t mention anything awful that they might feel obliged to fix. Don’t ever say, “I’m miserable without you,” or the like.
- The clue to your work on yourself is part of my instruction to “3: Work on yourself visibly.” This should be different in each note, and I think these should be pretty abstract. You want your partner to be curious for more. Some examples are, “Seeing my counselor weekly and I am sure learning a lot,” “Wow am I learning about how pushy I used to be.” “Boy, I am getting it that I have been asleep for years.” Etc. Anything you are learning that might involve some subject of their past “complaints” might be good. An example could be that if they complained about your temper, you say, “I am working really hard on getting rid of my anger. I realized it’s been a problem to me for years.”
- Lastly you include a gentle invitation (not a push) to more contact. “Love to hear from you any time you feel like it,” “It’d be fun to hear your voice.” “If you ever feel like contacting me, feel free.” (I strongly suggest you don’t ask questions. None, if you can. Just gentle invitations.)
- Then sign it, bluntly or not at all. “Dave,” “Yours,” etc. Do not say, “Your most obedient and humble servant, begging for your orders, please, please.”
- Send one message only, once a week for one month. (4 messages) Send one message, once every other week for two months. (4 messages) Send one message, once a month for two months. (2 messages) STOP.
That’s it.
If at any time he/she re-contacts you, follow my rule #4 and respond minimally. Oh, if their contact is neutral or simply newsy, read it and ignore it. The contact you are looking for is some request to connect to you coming from them. Example: if they say, “Life is crazy here,” you might feel an impulse to write back something like, “What’s going on?” Don’t do it! It’s a trap. If they say, “Tell me more about what you are learning,” that’s a move to reconnect. Respond minimally to that. Wait for them to be explicit.
Do not be surprised too much if he/she contacts you after the five months of this process. Your partner is leaving that period with a memory of your wanting them, but not pushing. That, I think, is the best you can do.
Good luck.
Hi Al,
Thank you for everything you do. I feel my situation is extreme and that there is probably no hope to go back. I have have/had Borderline Personality Disorder and really messed up my relationship. I was extremely selfish and unaware of my actions. We had been together for ten years, since high school, and broke up a few times in between, with me always begging for him back. The last time this happened, and he returned, I was reluctant to tell the world we were even together for fear of breaking up again. Anyway, I needed him to be with me ALL the time, and eventually when he couldn’t take it and needed more space, I started seeing other people on the side to keep my mind occupied- he knew about this, and was OK with it at first. Obviously, this was a terrible idea- one guy I started seeing told me to leave my boyfriend, as I would vent to him about all our problems, and eventually, he convinced me to leave him. Actually, the final decision came when I was on an acid trip- a terrible time to make a decision when I was so jaded. So I left and moved in with the new guy for a while.
A little more info- my boyfriend of 10 years struggles with anxiety, depression, ADHD, and had difficulty holding down a job, lives with his Parents, etc. so my dad, and ex-friends, thought he was bad for me. All of this outside influence confused me. At heart, I don’t care if he has these troubles, we share the same soul… The new guy, makes a lot of money and is “safe.” Anyway…
I don’t love the new guy. Eventually I moved back in with my boyfriend, but stupidly KEPT seeing the new guy, even though my boyfriend of 10 years was perfect for me. Little by little my boyfriend didn’t want to go out with me anymore, he told me we were through (while I was still living with him) and he met someone else through his friends. He’s now official with her, and says he’s in love, and has kicked me out. Now I’ve finally got a handle on my BPD, I know what I want, I know I could give him space in a relationship and be loving, selfless and caring, but it’s too late…he already has that in someone else, with no history of any mistreatment.
I am wondering if now that he has someone else, if this strategy you outlined above still has hope, or if I should just give up and accept my fate. He’s such a rare being, I’ve never met anyone else in my whole life who I loved as much as him. I just wasn’t aware of what I wanted at the time or who I was. I don’t think I’ll ever find anyone else I’ll love as much as him.
Thank you for your website and care.
Just want to add- I’ve definitely learned that to keep my mind “occupied” i should develop myself, my hobbies, my interests, independent of anyone else, instead of seeking out others. I’ve began meditating, reading, writing, drawing, working out, etc.
Well, Hello Stephanie, Sure, everything I’ve written works for a person who has been labeled BPD, I believe. In fact the “diagnosis” is much more lenient than how a committed relationship deals with the behaviors. From the point of view of a partnership, I think that probably 70% of women show the symptoms of BPD. So this is familiar. Tis normal, I believe for a BPD to match up with interesting partners. My experience is that a solid (Imago) match (someone you’ve been with for 10 years fits) will have about as much “disorder” as you. So if you’ve come to see yourself as a “bit crazy” your partner will also be a “bit crazy” – same “bit” different diagnosis. I don’t think the diagnosis matters as much as dealing with the symptoms. Just my thinking.
Should you work on your relationship with #1 guy? Reading my Map of Relationships suggests that working through his and your troubles is probably the quickest way to Vintage Love. Starting with someone else just takes longer. But the decision is up to you. What do you want to do?
Thanks Al. Yes, he is definitely a “bit” crazy as well. We both triggered each other’s crazyness and it just kind of spiraled out of control. Yes, I want him, more than anything, and I \ I do want to try. I just don’t know if it’s even possible for him to consider me after all the pain I’ve caused him, and he now has a new relationship with none of the “baggage”- he really is a catch in many ways; I started with him when I was 16 and had never been with anyone else, so over the years I wondered…is he really a good match? And that was part of the reason I saw other people.
The new girl, starting with him older, more mature, having been with other people before him, is in love with him and knows what a catch he is, and thus she is treating him perfectly, without any doubts. I feel like all hope is lost on my end, but I don’t want to give up. I just don’t think he’s going to be willing to give me another chance, when he has someone he is working with right now that has never hurt him.
Thanks Al. I suppose I will just follow your steps and work on myself, and hope for the best. Just afraid of regretting my past decisions for the rest of my life if I don’t get him back. I’m scared of seeing him marry her.
Hi Al
The love of my life is leaving. She has already started moving things out. I have read your article on what to do when they leave and have tried to follow your steps. Unfortunately I’m not perfect and it did not work. I am what you would call a late waker-upper. The last few months things have been going south. I was only getting 2 days a month off and she was in school full time pulse trying to work as well. We fell into a routine and felt more like room mates then partners. Then things got worse. She has always told me that she can’t deal with a possessive and controlling person and normally I’m not but never getting us time threw it into over drive with me and I didn’t realize it. We always thought that we had great communication between us when we would talk about our problems I would always walk away thinking things where ok and she would walk away thinking it went in one ear and out the other. But she would just sweep it under the rug. And I didn’t know thing where that bad until it was too late. She has always had a major issue with moving away from where she grew up. And I admit I didn’t take her back enough and there were times she could have gone with out me and never said anything cause she thought I would get mad or upset. She tells me all the time that she still loves me our sex life has improve greatly and that she doesn’t want to cut off contact and still wants to see me. We are both in a lot of pain and both say the only thing that helps is being with each other. She says she doesn’t really want to leave but she hast to in order to fix her self and that right now she needs to be alone. I guess what I’m asking is how long should I wait. I know there is nothing I can do to stop her from going at this point she has told me this her self. I really don’t know what to do I have no doubt that we can fix things but she has given up. I feel like things are so back and forth and the only thing that is for sure is that she is leaving. I am trying very hard to keep this pain from Turing into anger. I feel as tho I have been betrayed. I know she feels the same way. She feels that the person she fell in love was a lie and that this is the real me. Nothing could be further from the truth but she doesn’t believe me. And I don’t know how to show her other wise. And her home is an hour away so it not like we will see each other on the street. And once she’s gone I’m not sure I could ever get her to come back even tho she said if that’s what she wanted she would.
I’m sorry if this is all garbled up but my mind is running a million miles a minute. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.
Hello Daniel, Breathe! Stop that mind rushing so much. It takes time to become even remotely perfect. Rushing doesn’t work. But determination does. Waking up to “running around like a chicken with its head off” doesn’t work, but transforming into “slow, solid” does. Read the Map of Relationships and count on that powerful attractive energy that put you together at the beginning. It’s still there, if it happens now to be buried under the conflict. Power Struggle time. Learn what you can. Go for it.
Hi Al,
My partner just left me on new year’s eve after 2 years. There were many ups and downs during the 2 years and we broke up twice but only for a day or two. I now finally realized that the problems were never really resolved. I was always the clinger and I realized that sometimes during the relationship and I knew that if I calmed down, he’d gravitate to me naturally. But I was naive and thought that if I did so, I’d not be my true self towards him (this is my first relationship). The only time we were truly stable and had very little fights was when I was working for awhile and he could really see a future with me then and he was very happy. He became the clinger then.
A large part of our problems arose from the fact that we can’t seem to agree to disagree. Your articles were so true! We had a very very close and intimate relationship and when we disagreed, we felt we couldn’t understand or connect with each other.
He left me because he felt extremely stifled. It got to a point where he’d submit to me all the time. I felt stifled too because I never felt safe telling him my thoughts, but I think he felt much more stifled than me because I controlled him a lot and was extremely demanding. He also felt like his personal life had nothing left and he needs to find himself again.
When he broke up with me, for the first 2 weeks he had made up his mind that we weren’t compatible and that I wasn’t the one. I told him he only felt this way because I was being too needy and that I gave up all my personal interests and life for him. He didn’t believe that I could change and lost all hope. However, the following week, he told me that he was always thinking about finding me again and that he will always love me. The pain became more and more intense for him but less and less for me. I’ve maintained NC/LC for a few weeks now and I felt it has done be well. I sent him a text a little over a week ago saying that I want to be with him but not now and he replied “yes maybe next time we can but for now we have to find our own happiness right?” I didn’t reply. Not because I was upset but because I wanted to maintain NC.
At this juncture, I’ve lost hope. I’m not even sure if I ever want to be with him again. Everything would seem so trying. The only reason why I feel I should hang on is because he is a great guy who truly truly loved me and I really love and admire his character and values. He has never done anything unforgivable (besides dumping me) and I believe this is something that doesn’t come by often. But yet, I feel he will eventually come to believe I’m not the one again and forget about me. Solving our communication issues seems impossible as well, and I’m afraid we’d disappoint each other again. Should I maintain NC or try to keep him around in my life? I know that maintaining contact might cause him pain because he told me he felt so much pain being around me. I really am sitting on the fence on this.
I also can’t trust that one day he’d decide I wasn’t the one and leave again. Why does he keep changing his mind? Someone told me if someone tells you something, you’d better believe them. I feel like he only changed his mind because I tried to convince him otherwise and if so, it’s not something he believes personally. Should I trust him when he says that we have a shot at trying again maybe in the future when we’ve figured things out?
First I’d like to tell you thanks for all of this great information, its helped me so much to understand my own lizard’s behavior, and hopefully how I can improve. To me, its very intuitive thinking, very common sense, so thanks! But man do I have a long way to go….
I am not in the situation that most people here seem to be in. My ‘ex’ broke up with me in June ’13, then we got back together in November and now she’s broken it off again about 6 weeks ago, saying ‘She doesn’t want to be in a relationship’. This latest breakup was over my checking up on her emails. I know now that its my own lizard that wants ‘predictive information’, and that she wants autonomy – something that she really hasn’t ever had in her life. She had to have many surgeries on her feet as a child just to walk and is just now growing into an independent adulthood. She feels threatened by my keeping tabs on her, and in general feels I’m too controlling. I certainly am. I try not to be…
So we are in contact every day, she is a superficial avoider and I am the clinger. But still she emails me every morning, and we still get together, we still have sex… I have the awful abandonment issues (my mother left when I was 2) to go with the Clinger behaviour, and even as recent as last week I was distant and matter of fact on the phone, and she hung up without saying goodbye and then texts me ‘I feel you’re pulling away’. But instead of taking that as a cue to make her feel safe I of course attacked with ‘what do you expect?!!!’
Everything else I read makes me feel like a fool who’s being lead on by this girl, who is keeping me around while she hunts for something better, but I think I do just need to find an outlet for my own reliable membership and learn to back off and give her the space and the autonomy she needs…
Sorry, that’s rambling but I guess I’m frazzled with this, I just am having such a hard time feeling like I NEED a resolution, but knowing that if we’re to be together my only course is to be patient and work. The thing is I know, whether it be this or another relationship I need these skills to have the vintage love I desire.
Anyhow thanks again for all the great information.
peace
Marcus
It may be rambling, but I think it is good rambling, Marcus. The general impression is not about being a fool, but of two people who are consciously or unconsciously working through their learnings. Sounds like one thing for her is to develop firmer autonomy. She’s working on Boundaries which are necessary. Sounds normally clumsy in that learning processs: too big boundary tools waffling with too little boundary tools.
Of course, she picks you as a partner cuz you are working through autonomy issues of trying to control other people – so you end up appearing like the “enemy” until you learn to set good boundaries around what you can control. That move I think is to learn how to get enough sense of control so that you don’t try invade others. “All people are chronically disobedient. Learn to live with it” reads one of the posters I had to use in teaching myself the same lesson. Also sounds as if you’ve been trained to use temper and have to get that under control.
At this point the solutions are more and more specific while the principles stay the same. “How do I deal with this situation, specifically?” “How do I train myself to do the ‘wise thing’ I’ve learned in this situation and in all similar situations forever?” Lots of learning, as you say. I suggest you use Posters as part of your learning. I think controllers are very susceptible to “the rules” and thus sometimes just need to change those rules in order to make progress.
Good luck
I’ve been on your site a few times over the last few weeks and getting ready to send my first email and was wondering if my situation makes sense to follow the above steps. My story is this: My ex-finance and I were dating for 2.5 years; engaged 9 months to marry in Aug 2014. We recently bought a house (6 months ago) and she is in a high-demand residency program. We recently started to get more stress in both our lives and did not have great communication over the last few months. I would snap back when she wanted to talk, sex was not really happening, and we lost the emotional discussions. I went on a trip in December with a friend and I came back to her telling me that she cheated and is leaving me, the house, and everything. We took the weekend to talk, cry, and discuss things. It was a super emotional time, but we still love each other. She said she needed to be dependent (though living with the new guy is not being dependent) and that she was not happy in thinking “this can’t be it”. We talked last week and I shared my revelations and apologized for every time I made her feel bad. I can’t believe I made her feel that way and I don’t know why I was so blind to it. I fear that I was taking her for granted and that is not healthy. She was so happy to hear me say all those things and apologized again, but that still didn’t change her mind. We have been friendly and cordial even since this event occurred and it is coming up on 6 weeks today. We’ve been in touch here and there, but more so for financials (mortgage, house, car, etc). I sent her a note a week ago on financials, but she hasn’t gotten back to me yet but said she would (however, she did reply back to me asking for a recipe). That is my story in a quick nut-shell.
I know every situation is different, but is there anything different I should do/try than what you have shared above? I also agree that no contact is not correct in my situation and I’ve also started to come to terms with everything (as much as I wish for her to come home, want to work things out, and for us to start a new relationship).
Best and thanks in advance!
As a quick follow-up..early on in the break-up, I did write my long emails and push her away. She responded, but it was simple replies and another one or two I received a text to meet in person. But it’s coming up on two weeks since we saw each other, and I’ve learned a lot with therapy already and felt it was a good time to reach out with something more neutral using your wisdom above. Again, still looking to see if there is something different I could do here based on my scenario. Thanks again 🙂
Nope, Matt, it sounds pretty straightforward. Keep a learning.
Well, Matt, it sounds like you to got onto the normal struggles that happen as the Power Struggle emerges. The troubles you face are at once both simpler and vastly more difficult to you probably imagine. For example, I found that “apologizing” does almost nothing and worse if you think it is “sufficient” and apology can be awful.
I guess I would suggest reading my Map of Relationship and then starting to fit the learnings about Safety and Reliable Membership etc, into your planning. Tis a long journey and making mistakes along the way is just part of the trip. My guess is that you’ve gotta become an expert at building trust in her. I wouldn’t give up yet.