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Re: Re: Using Al Turtle Logic on Relationship Troubles
by
Al Turtle
Dear Friend,
Thanks for your comments and questions. I read your words with comfort and sadness.
The sadness is that I, too, wanted a step-by-step cookbook to solve all my troubles with relationships. I even looked at a bunch of what was offered and found them wanting. You can check them out. Try Dr. Phil, he seems to act as if he has answers to all problems rather quickly. He is known for the 8 minute answer.
For myself I, too, was in pain, and while I believed there was a way out, I couldn’t find it, or anyone who would show me the way. A lot of writers promised much, but that seems to have been more a deceptive collusion of publishers, editors, agents and book titles than of anything really valuable. Twas more valuable to them (their pocket book) than to me, trying to find a fix to my problems. My sadness then, and now, is that most people that are promising fixes don’t know the fixes themselves – they just look good in a marketing-kind-of-way.
(This, by the way, is one reason I have not tried to write a book on relationships. I would end up lost, competing with those who don’t know the wisdom but who do know how to market, again Dr. Phil or John Gray.)
The comfort I feel is much more a sense of “Ah. I have a good idea, good ideas, about what this person can do. And, I am not lost anymore.” Might sound a bit cocky, but I am sure glad to be where I am!
I hear you have trouble putting my ideas into actionable actions. I did too. Be patient with yourself. You have your own way of learning. And learning is your job, and there seems to be no way around that idea. Discover your way of learning and get on with it.
As a student in school and college, I found that I learned best from contacting the teacher. Books were often little use to me. But if I could get to a “real” teacher, I could ask the right questions and I would learn like lightning. I never could not find a wise relationship teacher. I had to learn all I have by direct contact, trial and lots and lots of errors. Most of my learnings have come from a deep kind of “spiritual” learning. Really, my essays are like “notes to me” about the things I have learned. And I guess that is why my writings may not be so useful to you. They are written to me and not really prepared for “the reader.” Sorry about that. But then again, I did find my way eventually and have shared what I have. And I plan to continue sharing. And perhaps it will eventually seem better organized.
By the way, you can always contact me and I can be a teacher for you, if you want. I am not overloaded at this point, and I like working with people. I spend time with clients by the hour. I carry this entire website, its practical applications and theories in my head. Also you might try any Imago Therapist.
To respond to your questions.
How to talk and heal after an infidelity? How about the “cheating spouse” validating the “cheated spouse?”
These two kind of flowed together for me. The real question, for me, is how to get your partner to talk honestly at all, and how to get your partner to “validate you” at all. I wrote a piece on How to get him/her to do what you want? For me, all those questions resolve back to the issue of “Why should an adult do anything?” Sharing yourself, or hearing someone (making them feel heard) or validating someone (making them feel understood) takes effort. I’ve found that in relationship the only valuable reason for doing things for your partner is that it gives you pleasure and leads to pleasure. I suggest you take the lead. I suggest you put your “needs” away on a back burner. You may “loose some battles but win the war” this way. I suggest you make a plan to earn your partner putting some effort into you – to share, to listen, to validate.
I suggest you set your sights on hearing and healing his wounds and his pain that lead your partner to "cheat." Set your sights on becoming and expert at validating his behavior that you see as “unfaithful.” This you can do. Making your partner able to validate you is something you cannot do. You can show them the way. Model it. (Expecting him to do it for you doesn’t seem to work! So quit it.)
“He’s unwilling/unable to go there, to accept that the pain I am feeling was a result of the secret keeping and breach of trust.”
This one is quite clear to me, and you may not like it at all. Stop blaming him for your hurt. I’ve found that is only a way of trying to manipulate people, whether I do it or you do it. Learn boundaries. I am responsible for my feelings, including my hurt! Someone can try to hurt me, but it only works if I let it. Thus, quit blaming him. Yes, hold him responsible for what he did, but not for how you took it or felt about it. That is your part.
And you have a great clue there, in making things better. You mention “secret keeping” and I assume it was his secrecy. And you mention “breaches of trust” – what I call betrayal. There is probably a great deal more to this “secret keeping” than you know about so far. You will be making progress when you both become more and more candid with each other. Secret keeping, like silence, I believe has only one cause. He keeps secrets cuz you are not safe to share the truth with - from his point of view. What the heck do you do that might tend to threaten him, that might lead him to silence or secret keeping and that (blessedly) you can stop doing? Big question there! Ask friends and family for help in finding the answers.
Your last paragraph was truly awesome to me. Read my Power of Passivity to get ahold of that Victim stuff. None of us are victims or bullies or passive masters. But all of us use these postures at times and can learn to recognize them and move beyond them to adult relating.
“Does the past impact the future?”
How silly! How about the APR (amiable psychological response), DUH? Our brains are incapable of forgetting the past. We are not built that way. Because of our memory systems, we have to build on our past, resolve the things from the past, and we move forward in that way. Learning from, adding to, our past makes us wise. When people say to forget the past, tell ‘em that way doesn’t work. But many people don’t know how to process the past, don’t know how to Make Amends or deal with Frustrations. Heck, that is why I put these processes into my life and articles. All relationships need ways to self-repair. Get it! Forgetting just doesn’t work.
I love your bit about trying to have an “IMAGO” conversation about “your” feelings. What is that? The Imago Couple’s Dialogue is a two person skill training device. It is possible to have it one-sided, but only about the other person’s feelings, thoughts and beliefs. I can have one with anyone cuz I will do the work, but I can’t make anyone listen or validate me, unless they want to and have learned how.
“his lizard pounces and he believes he is under attack (despite no such intention or language or whatever on my part).”
Hey, that is what lizards are about. They have their own way of interpreting what is going on and while they misunderstand things a lot, they are remarkably reliable and accurate. Learn to make his Lizard relax, help his lizard to feel safe.
“He just does not want to go there.” Learn how to make him want to. Make it worth his while.
“I desperately need to be heard.” Boy, do I understand that one. Clingers unite! This like a whole hill of baying wolves, yelling at the moon right after their partner has left them. Go ahead and cry out, but then get to work. The solution is to learn to make your Avoider feel safe and at peace.
The problem with a simple list of “what to do” is that relationships are a bit more complex – see my Flying a Good Relationship. Each step isn’t hard, but they seem often to have to be done all at the same time: the skills for safety, for reliable membership, for diversity, for autonomy, for purpose. The good news is that I don’t believe the list is endless. Good luck.
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